#130: David Jockers, DC- Ketogenic Diet Meals, Carb Cycling & Mistakes

by Mike Mutzel


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 About David Jockers, DC

Dr. David Jockers is a Maximized Living doctor, functional nutritionist, corrective care chiropractor, exercise physiologist, and certified strength & conditioning specialist. He currently owns and operates Exodus Health Center in Kennesaw, Georgia. He is a leading writer for “The Truth About Cancer,” “Organic Lifestyle Magazine” and “PrimalDocs” which are three of the top online health publications in the world. He is also on the expert panel for the popular “South African Journal of Natural Medicine.” He has well over 1200 professionally published natural health articles all over the internet and in-print magazines.

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Show Notes

01:01 Benefits of Ketosis: A ketogenic diet is a high good fat/low carbohydrate diet. It helps to improve insulin sensitivity. Insulin is a pro-inflammatory hormone and a ketogenic diet brings insulin down. Ketones are a preferred fuel source for your brain. It allows you go for long periods between meals. The mitochondria within your cells will upregulate, so our bodies produce more ATP energy. You become more efficient.

02:31 State of Ketosis: Getting into a state of ketosis is a goal that Dr. Jockers has for every one of his clients. Things like adrenal fatigue or mitochondrial damage must be addressed before a sustained state of ketosis is possible. Instead, they would benefit from cycling in and out of ketosis for 12 hour cycles. Even the cycles of ketosis will reduce inflammation, support mitochondrial biogenesis, cellular autophagy (the breakdown of decaying cells)

05:33 Supporting Ketosis: Using coconut oil or MCT oil (concentrated caprylic acid in coconut oil) is effective in producing ketones. It can be used throughout the day in foods and drinks. Supplements can be helpful. Chromium helps with blood sugar sensitivity. Carnitine puts fat into the mitochondria to be used. Supplemental hydrochloric acid and bile are useful for those of us who do not produce enough, to help metabolize fats.  Avocadoes, olive oil, and butter contain longer chain fats which must be adequately broken down for use.

07:56 A Removed Gallbladder and Ketosis: Your liver produces the bile. Your gallbladder is the storehouse. Bile will still be produced, but there won’t be as much available for a meal.  Consume smaller amounts of fats at a time. Supplement with betaine HCL and pepsin. Poor stomach acid and poor bile production go hand-in-hand. Apple cider vinegar and ginger stimulate digestive juices and help prepare the liver. Bragg has a ginger spice drink or you could make your own. Drinking it 30 minutes before a meal helps prepare the liver. You could also use bitters, dandelion, cilantro, milk thistle, parsley in salads or when juicing. Smaller meals are important.

10:26 Vagal Tone: We don’t rest and process during and after our meals. Dr. Jockers’ has his busy clients consume liquid and raw foods in smoothies, shakes, or salads during the day, because you need less digestive juice to metabolize a smoothie. You want to be in a relaxed position for at least 15 minutes prior to eating. Take 3 long deep breaths before eating. Dr. Jockers recommends to his patients to only have meat in one meal per day. Eat your meat at the time of day when you have the least amount of stress and the most time to relax, at least an hour.

13:26 Keeping Stress Under Control: When you are under massive amounts of stress, ketosis may not be the best goal for you. Stress hormone throws off your blood sugar. Make sure that you are eating well, sleeping well, taking enough B vitamins. The effects of adaptogenic herbs and glutathione-boosting agents can be profound. Most of us are not adapting well to the stressors of life. Being good at adapting to daily stress is a sign of healthy aging. A ketogenic diet boosts the adapting potential.

15:34 Blood Sugar Stability: In ketosis, your blood sugar stays stable. If you blood sugar us under 80 and you feel really good, it is a sign that you are in ketosis. When your blood sugar is stable for a length of time, your adrenals don’t have to work as hard. With less adrenal influence, you have greater parasympathetic tone. When your blood sugar is all over the place, your blood sugar must do more modulating. Cortisol’s main job is to keep glucose levels stable. Inflammation from spiking blood sugar impacts brain chemistry. Inflammation somewhere can result in inflammation everywhere. Brain inflammation impacts mood and brain function.

18:40 Ketones in the Brain: Ketones are the brain’s preferred fuel source. They also increase levels BDNF (Brain-derived neurotrophic factor), which has a positive effect upon neurogenesis, the formation of new cells and synaptic density. Ketones positively affect cellular autophagy, critical in the brain. People with Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and other degenerative brain diseases have lower levels of autophagy. The body has difficulty metabolizing the old cells that have been damaged from oxidative stress and the like and difficulty creating new healthy cells.  In ketosis repair becomes a dominant feature.

20:55 Ketosis and Cancer Prevention: There are a number of mechanisms for this. One of the key features of cells is defective mitochondria. Dr. Jockers recommends the book Cancer as a Metabolic Disease by Dr. Thomas Seyfried. Cancer cells have at least 10 times more insulin receptors than normal cells. One of the waste products of glycolysis is acid. Ketones are an alternative fuel source that allows us to survive and thrive, while reducing cancer’s fuel source, weakening cancer cells. Cancer cells also create an antioxidant defense system from sugar. With less sugar, they are less able to protect themselves from our immune system. Natural or conventional cancer therapies will be more effective.  We have a P53 gene in every cell. Its job is to regulate cellular mitosis, that is DNA quality control of cell reproduction. When we are under a great deal of oxidative stress throughout our lives, we damage the P53 gene and we are no longer able to guard against abnormal cell growth. Intermittent fasting and ketosis help to boost AMPK (adenosine monophosphate-activated protein kinase) which helps with the regulating and the protection of P53 gene from oxidative stress.

26:29 Testing and Assessment: The gold standard measurement is blood ketone strips. You can get a precision extra blood ketone meter for about $40. The strips are about $4 each. There is also a breath meter. The Ketonix breath analyzer costs about $150 and has analysis software. It measures breath acetone levels, a byproduct of a ketone. It allows you to track your data. You can also check your blood glucose levels. If your levels are under 80 and you are feeling and functioning great, you are in ketosis. Dr. Jockers has done this long enough that he just measures how he feels.

30:40 Bowel Motility: Dr. Jockers drinks 32 oz of water when he first awakens and moves his bowels within the first hour of waking. Slow bowels cause fermentation and inflammation, along with the accompanying blood sugar rollercoaster. When you eat a meal, the waste from the meal should be out of your body in 24 hours or less. The ideal is 12 to 18 hours. For many of us, it takes days.

33:01 Post Meal Blood Sugar for Ketosis: The sweet spot for ketosis is 50 to 80 between meals. The longer that your blood sugar is up, the less your body will create ketones. If, after a meal, your blood sugar is over 90, 100, or 110, you are not in ketosis. Putting apple cider vinegar on your food lowers the glycemic response of foods. Chromium, carnitine, vanadium and bitter herbs like gymnema, bitter melon help to reduce and control blood sugar. Doing high intensity exercise before eating stimulates the glute4 receptors.

35:24 Carbohydrate Cycling: Everything and everyone is individual. In general, Dr. Jockers recommends to his patients to once a week, ever day or every other day, to have a higher carb meal. It is better to do in the evening hours, because it will have a positive effect upon lowering stress hormone and producing serotonin and melatonin. He recommends hypoallergenic carbs, like sweet potatoes, yams, pumpkin, or squash. Some people use rice, but Dr. Jockers turns adds turmeric, black pepper (which activates the curcuminoids), maybe some apple cider vinegar, olive oil or Mediterranean herbs, to enhance its value and blood glucose.

37:44 Muscle Health and Ketosis: When you are in ketosis, you have a higher fasting blood leucine level. Leucine is a branch chain amino acid that stimulates an anabolic response in our body where we preserve muscle and build muscle. Whey protein helps to boost leucine levels. Many claim to have better performance in a fasted state of ketosis. There is a higher human growth hormone release as well.

40:03 Ketones and Athletes:  A number of athletes train in ketosis, but not everyone. Dr. Jockers’ advice to athletes is the same as to others. Eat a moderate amount of hypoallergenic anti-inflammatory carbs in the evening. Include lots of good fat, phytonutrients and antioxidants. The goal is keeping inflammation under control and less of a focus on calorie or carb loading.

41:50 Ketogenic Diet Misconceptions: It is not the Atkins diet. It is not tons of bacon and butter on everything. The focus should be on consuming high levels of phytonutrients. Grass fed butter, over grain fed butter, has butyrate, which is great for your gut lining, conjugated linoleic acid, vitamin A, and fat soluble retinol. A common mistake is the consumption of poor quality fats and proteins. Also common is the creation of a high protein diet rather than a high fat diet. High protein turns into sugar. We need the fat.

44:44 Dr. Jockers Morning Routine: Now that he is a father of 5 week old twin boys, things have changed. He tries to be in bed by 9:45 pm and wakes at 4 am, though he realizes that is not enough sleep. He helps his wife with the boys and takes them into his home office so she can get some sleep. He will listen to meditative music or a motivational video for inspiration. He drinks lots of water and herbal teas. He does posture exercises and weights. By 6 a.m. he is working at his computer.

47:05 Dr. Jockers’ Favorite Nutrient: Turmeric is his favorite. His skin is smoother and healthier when he eats turmeric. He uses it raw. If you are using a supplement, get a curcumin extract with a bioperine or black pepper to help activate it. Always take it with food, ideally a fatty meal. The fat helps with absorption.

48:54 One Health Tip for America: Focus on low cost health interventions, like vitamin D3 supplementation. For the most part, everyone needs it. It is low cost and would have dramatic effects upon heart disease, cancer, osteomalacia, osteoporosis, and autoimmunity.


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  1. Excellent

    I have a scientific background, and all written here makes (connected) sense.

    I will research how high protein turns into sugar, not heard of that before.

    Thank you.

    • Hi Mar,

      Thanks for the note. Glad you enjoyed the podcast.

      There is some good research if you look up ‘gluconeogenesis’ in PubMed.

      Have an awesome day,


  2. I thought this info was practical and helpful. I plan to drink even more water in the am at to eat AI rice tonight. Thank you both for your knowledge and experience with health issues.

  3. Absolutely loved this episode. I have been following a ketogenic diet for about 2 years now and my body has responded very well. Thanks so much for these wonderful podcasts!

  4. Thoroughly enjoyed this information And understand it better now than before. I’m in the process of using the bulletproof brain octane and am wondering what would be the symptoms of taking too much of a healthy fat even if I’m following your advice of eating clean food

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