#254: Lectins, Inflammation & How Eating Out-of-Season Can Make You Fat with Steven Gundry, MD

by Mike Mutzel




Gain Early Access to All Our Interviews and Additional Bonus Content Click Here



Listen to the recording


Sound Cloud



Sponsored Message: This show is brought to you by Perfect Keto

Save over 20% OFF their high-quality MCT and exogenous ketone formulations by using promo code: HIH20 at checkout


Perfect Keto MCT Oil Powder: Salted Caramel Ketosis Supplement (Medium Chain Triglycerides – Coconuts) for Ketone Energy – Paleo Natural Non Dairy Ketogenic Keto Coffee Creamer


Tools and Resources:


The Longevity Paradox: How to Die Young at a Ripe Old Age (The Plant Paradox)

The Plant Paradox: The Hidden Dangers in Healthy Foods That Cause Disease and Weight Gain

The Plant Paradox Cookbook:

The Plant Paradox Cookbook: 100 Delicious Recipes to Help You Lose Weight, Heal Your Gut, and Live Lectin-Free

Other Links Mentioned in this Show


About Dr. Steven Gundry, MD

Dr. Steven Gundry initially created a diet to help his patients lower their cholesterol. He soon realized the diet might help others improve their health and wrote the book “Dr. Gundry's Diet Evolution,” detailing dietary recommendations that he says help prevent chronic diseases such as high blood pressure. The Gundry Diet Evolution consists of three phases that involve shifting your eating pattern to rely more on fresh plants over animal protein.


Studies Mentioned:

Teng, Y., Ren, Y., Sayed, M., Hu, X., Lei, C., Kumar, A., et al. (2018). Plant-Derived Exosomal MicroRNAs Shape the Gut Microbiota. Cell Host and Microbe, 1–26.


Show Notes

04:31 We were designed to eat, our genetics are designed to interact with and our microbiome are designed to interact with certain plants that make you healthy. There are plants that you should avoid.

05:39 Getting to know a lectin in 500 years is Speed Dating in evolution. Squash came from North America or South America. Those of us with ancestry from Asia, Europe or Africa, did not eat this until 500 years ago.

06:41 Hormesis, small dose poison/lectin foods, can be beneficial. With autoimmunity, it is unlikely that lectin foods can be consumed.

08:38 Many types of plants want you to eat their fruit. They protect the seed with a hard indigestible external shell. The color of the fruit tells you that the fruit is ripe and the seeds are fully protected. If it is too early and the seeds are not fully protected, the fruit will make you sick to eat.

10:01 A plant puts protection inside the plant in the form of lectins when a hard covering is not made for the seeds. In animal models, lectins cause depression and anxiety. We use chemical interventions to make our fruit look ripe before it has naturally ripened. These fruits are high in lectins.

11:40 If you want to gain weight, eat fruit. Great apes only gain weight during nature’s fruit season. Their microbiome changes and they begin digesting the mucus layer that protects the lining of the gut. They normally eat fibrous leaves. The lack of mucosal lining allows LPS escape and cause you to gain weight.

13:29 We are only supposed to eat fruit once a year. A female orangutan only comes into heat at the end of fruit season, when she has gained enough weight to carry a baby.

13:58 A small amount of glucose 15 minutes after a workout will allow protein to be delivered to muscle cells better than if you didn’t have that small amount of glucose. Use a resistant starch for this.

15:00 There is nothing wrong with starches as long as they are slowly delivered.

15:17 We have added lectins to tomatoes and corn, genetically engineering them to be insect resistant. Corn contains the Snowdrop lectin gene. Snowdrops lectin is toxic to insects and humans.

17:22 Roundup is now in Europe.

18:43 Much olive oil is adulterated. Dr. Gundry recommends California Olive Ranch and Bariani olive oil.

19:26 Polyphenols are sunburn protection for the plant. The higher in altitude a plant grows, the fruit has more polyphenol content.

20:13 Polyphenols in olive oil stimulate neuron growth and memory in humans.

21:53 Polyphenols from olive oil and red wine change and paralyze the gut microbiome to keep it from triggering an enzymatic mechanism that produces TMAO. TMAO is produced when you eat animal protein. It damages the surface of your blood vessels.

23:10 With the consumption of olive oil, lots of plants, and red wine, you can eat meat without the production of TMAO. TMAO is part of the reason that those of us with more plant based diets have less coronary artery disease.

25:12 Wine is a beverage that you consume during the meal. It brings polyphenols into your system to help prevent endotoxemia.

26:24 Glyphosate is in nearly all California wines, accidently even some of the organic wines. Dr. Gundry drinks wine from Italy, France and Argentina. They are from high elevations and are biodynamic or organic.

28:03 There are about 40 different sulfur containing compounds in brassica vegetables, onions and garlic. Sulfur is critical for mitochondrial function and critical for producing glutathione – the ultimate free radical oxygen scavenger. San Pelegrino water has the highest sulfur content of any known water.

29:35 Sulfur is a defense mechanism produced by the plants. Extra high consumption of kale can bring about hypothyroidism. This can be rectified by backing off the kale.

32:36 The preparation of food can change how it effects your body. Raw vegetables, especially raw cruciferous or dark leaved vegetables, have defensive compounds that are irritating to you if you do not have a good mucosal barrier in your gut. Cooking makes all the difference. The modern pressure cooker is a great tool.

34:32 The chewing and chopping process release the bioactive compounds better than if you don’t chew or chop. There are compounds in cruciferous vegetables that hit the AHR receptor on the lining of our gut cells. They are specialized immune cells that sense what you just ate. Compounds in chopped or chewed raw broccoli/cauliflower tell the receptors to relax and not sound the alarm.

35:48 Dr. Gundry takes supplementary DIM several times a day for its immune modulating affect.

36:20 Tannins are a protective system of the plant found in higher levels in red wine and walnuts. For some, tannins stimulate a migraine headache.

37:40 Essential oils may have compounds that are antinutrients. Be cautious.

38:10 Eat chocolate that is non-alkali. Polyphenols in chocolate make your brain cells grow.

39:26 Our microbiome changes by the season. Long lived cultures change their diet seasonally.

40:24 The way you treat the wall of our intestine determines how long you will live and how well you live.

40:38 Measure zonulin as a test for leaky gut. Dr. Gundry also measures TNF-Alpha. It reflects how many lectins are being eaten.

41:06 Lectins are probably a major contributor to coronary artery disease. Removing lectins from the diet reverses an autoimmune attack on your coronary arteries.

43:35 Oxidized cholesterol is bad for you. Polyphenols prevent this oxidation.

45:00 There is an association with red meat consumption and increased cancer and increased heart disease.

45:33 There is a sugar molecule in the blood vessels in the meat of pigs, lamb and beef called Neu5Gc. Our blood stream violently reacts to this molecule. We have a sugar molecule in our blood stream that we share with fish and chickens called Neu5Ac. It is nearly identical to Neu5Gc. Because of this close similarity, we can make an autoantibody to Neu5Gc, creating an autoimmune attack when we consume beef, pork or lamb.

46:28 Tumors use Neu5Gc to hide from our immune system. Human tumors have large amounts of Neu5Gc. We have no ability to manufacture Neu5Gc, so our tumors got it from beef, lamb or pork. Beef, lamb and pork are correlated with heart disease and cancer.

48:20 Lectins in meat come from the lectins in foods eaten by the animal. Grass fed and grass finished meat does not produce them.

52:24 Eat for your bacteria, not for you. The type of carbohydrate you eat feeds different bacterium.

54:08 Dr. Gundry’s desert island nutrient is leaves. His favorite tuber and second choice, is Jerusalem artichoke/sun choke. Bring some vitamin D. You will never get enough vitamin D from the sun.

55:48 Dr. Gundry’s morning routine is dictated by his 4 dogs, with whom he hikes 2 ½ miles in the hills each morning. Blue zones are in hills.

57:06 Dr. Gundry’s elevator pitch is to stop glyphosate.

  1. He said we/apes gain weight during fruit season because there’s no fiber from leaves for our microbiome to feed on so it digest our GI mucous membrane and produces LPs which stimulate the weight gain.

    But fruits have fiber for our microbiome to feed on. Whats up with that?

  2. Dr Gundry is a good story-teller but these educational podcasts should be based on evidence. This IMHO is a poor interview with no degree of challenging the guest on his assertions. Is there any evidence about his stories on lectins and CVD, glucose molecules (Neu5Gc) we ingest from beef, lamb and pork and which are used by tumours to “hide from our immune system”? This last point is contradictory anyway as he earlier said that our immune system mounts an attack on Neu5Gc when it enters our bloodstream – so why would it be used by tumours? The whole story is lame. Just like his lies about the way tomatoes are peeled and seeded before being consumed in the Mediterranean countries! All about selling his books and products! Snake oil sales revisited!

  3. I’m relatively new to your podcast which I think are excellent including this one with Dr. Gundry. I enjoyed it immensely..and could not stop listening. I recognize that Dr. Gundry was not quizzed to back up all of the statements as someone posted.

    But I thought Mike did a great job of engaging him to share what he knows. I’d love to see a bibliography myself and I’m sure there are other points of view.

    I even tried to look I even tried to look up information on cucumber seeds and whether they were bad for you. It’s not easy to find on the Internet. Which makes me appreciate the conversation even more because I don’t think he makes this up it’s just someone obscure information that’s not easily identified in the sea of information of the Internet. Thanks so much for doing these interviews which are a breath of fresh air and very cutting-edge

    • Mike I came across a little harsh – I do appreciate the work Mike is doing getting these speakers and interviewing them. And I also appreciate these guys are always there to sell something (book, service or product) but at times it feels like doctors like Gundry manipulate science to create a problem (lectins are bad for you) and then provide the “solution” (his tablets which allow you to alleviate the effects of lectins). I am very sceptical. I read up on the Neu5Gc glycan issue – it’s just a theory/suspicion that it may be involved in oncogenesis – not a done deal as Gundry presented it. Watch out for people’s biases! Interviewers should push their guests to provide scientific evidence for their claims. See how Peter Attia interviews (interogates) his guests.

Leave a Reply